Richard Thomas
At first glance, the role of East German spy Günter Guillaume in Democracy appears impossibly complex. Described as "the hat rack in the corner," Guillaume eavesdrops and lurks his way into the inner circle of West German chancellor Willy Brandt in Michael Frayn's political drama, which has arrived on Broadway after an acclaimed debut at London's National Theatre. Structurally, the part is a juggling act of narration, inner monologues and scenes with James Naughton as Brandt, Michael Cumpsty as Guillaume's spy boss and various bickering politicos. Fortunately, Richard Thomas loves a challenge, as he proved in recent New York appearances in Edward Albee's Tiny Alice and Terrence McNally's The Stendhal Syndrome. Almost unrecognizable in Guillaume's boxy suit and nerdy glasses, Thomas brings an eagerness and a shy intelligence to the character. Now entering his 47th year as a professional actor he debuted on Broadway in 1958 as F.D.R.'s son in Sunrise at Campobello, Thomas seems delighted to have moved home to New York City with his wife of 10 years, Georgiana, and youngest son, Montana.
I don't think I've ever seen a role with so many different demands. Did you realize how complex it would be?
It's a trip! I realized it when I read it, and then I went to London to see the play and said, "Oh boy." I knew I would have to be all over the stage and I wanted to see how it was done there. Of course, the American cast makes it a different show, but the beauty of the part is the same.
What did you like about Guillaume?
First of all, it's always great fun to play an antagonist. And what's marvelous for me is playing the two sides of the character from one moment to the next--who he is in the office and who he is with his East German handler. You're making lightning-fast changes, and since I'm on stage almost the whole time, I really get to watch the play unfold. The changes in the character are subtle. He becomes attached to Brandt and also captivated by the democratic process. There's a beautiful understatement in the play.
Oh no. James Bond is a fantasy spy. This is in the great tradition of spy literature by Graham Greene, John le Carré, and Eric Ambler--the spy who came in from the cold, the down-at-the-heels, realistic spy. This character is more conflicted and more complex; the personal journey he takes is extraordinary.
We rarely see political plays on Broadway. Did that interest you?
To me, [Tim Robbins'] Embedded is a political play. I prefer to think of this as a history play. It has a lot to say about politics, but it's Shakespearean in its sweep; it takes place over several years and has a huge scope. And in the center of it, there's a symbiotic relationship between these two antithetical characters. Both are struggling with huge identity issues: Guillaume, the much larger role, is a spy leading a double life. Brandt is very much like a Shakespearean king whose shadow is present over the play but we don't find out that much about him. He's the central figure but he's not telling the story; the antagonist does, much like Iago in Othello, although Guillaume is ultimately a sympathetic character--at least I hope so. The complexity of the individuals mirrors the complexity of the political situation. That's pretty terrific thematic stuff.
It's an interesting play to see in this political year because the audience can read into it almost anything they want.
It's about the process of politics; it's not selling a point of view or preaching to any particular choir, and that makes it a more timeless play. One of the interesting things this play shows is that given the complexity of individual human relationships and the chaos of the larger political relationships, it's amazing anything ever gets done in a government! I think the fact that it's not about Americans and American politics and our form of democracy gives the play more relevance.
Was it a conscious decision not to use German accents?
Yes. They didn't do it in London either. The play is complex enough without having to follow it with German accents! [Director] Michael Blakemore wanted to use American actors with American speech patterns so it would seem more immediate to an American audience.
The relationship between you and James Naughton as Brandt is crucial. How did it develop?
Jimmy and I have done many shows together over the years in Williamstown. We've done Schnitzler and Gorki and Tennessee Williams; we have a dramatic past, and that's very good. In fact I've worked with a lot of the guys in the show. Lee Wilkof and I were in The Front Page together, and I worked with John Dossett in Fifth of July and Richard Masur on The Waltons many, many years ago. It's really a nice bunch of guys.
I saw Democracy the same week as Twelve Angry Men. I was thinking that it's a good time to be a middle-aged white actor in New York.
A friend of mine saw them both the same day! I said, "You've certainly seen enough suits." At least those guys in Twelve Angry Men get to take their coats off and loosen their ties.
Why have you remained so loyal to the theater over the years?
Three things: It's the medium I started in as a child, so it feels like home. Also, I take pleasure in being on a stage and being part of a company and being in front of an audience. Of course, everyone says it's the audience, but for me it's larger than that--it's the whole quality of the process. And the third thing is that I'm very text-driven as an actor. I love working with playwrights and investigating texts.
Those of us who've seen Tiny Alice, The Stendhal Syndrome and now Democracy can only conclude that you're not afraid to tackle talky plays.
No, I'm not scared of any part! Maybe I should be. Throughout my career, I've always looked for something challenging to do, something I haven't already done. And I'm attracted what I refer to as "language plays." The plays you mentioned are all very different, but each of them has a clear voice.
With its explicit sexual dialogue, The Stendhal Syndrome must have been a shock to fans who came to see their hero from The Waltons on stage.
Oh, that's happened in many plays I've done.
I almost hate to bring up The Waltons, even though you'll always be identifiable as John-Boy. Have you made peace with that?
I was never at war with it. I have nothing but intensely fond memories of doing The Waltons and I remain close to the cast; they're very much a second family. I'm very proud of its place in television history.
Have you ever had a TV part as challenging as the Shakespearean and classical roles you've done on stage?
I have. What's interesting about John-Boy is that he was just as much a characterization as anything I've done in the theater. I had a window to the part because my father was from Eastern Kentucky and I spent a lot of time in that part of the world as a child. But John-Boy was no more me than any of other part even though I played him for five years.
You're a Manhattan kid.
Born and raised, yes. And we've just moved back here and we're really happy about that.
Were your parents stage parents?
In the best sense of the word they were. They were in the business themselves as ballet dancers, so they understood what was involved.
Have any of your five children gone into the business?
Actually there are seven altogether. My wife had two, and I had four, and now we have Montana, who is 8. I don't make a distinction between mine and hers. Our youngest daughter is a theater student at Fordham. Another daughter is a budding producer; another is working for a production company.
What is your oldest son up to? I remember that he looks a lot like you.
He looks like a Latino version of me. He's 28 now and is a very sweet boy. He works in broadband development for Sony but he's also a freelance music journalist. I love having a writer in the family.
Was it a big decision to take the plunge into fatherhood again?
Well, I asked my buddy John Rubinstein about it, because he has kids that are older than my oldest and younger than my youngest. I said, "What possessed you to have another baby?" And he said, "I liked the mother." That's really it. You know, I'm going to be in my 60s by the time [Montana] graduates from high school, so it's like, enough already! But I love having the opportunity to do it all over again. John said, "If you miss out on being an older dad, you're missing something great," and he was absolutely right. Moving back to New York has been a great thing because it's the three of us now; Montana was born into this huge, tumultuous family with love and attention from all sides.
How did you decide to move back?
My wife sort of said, "Let's do it." She's known for a long time that I love doing theater and being in New York. All our kids are grown up except for the little guy. We were free and can fit into an apartment again, so we sold our big house in Los Angeles. I got what I needed from L.A. a long time ago in terms of success, and my stock-in-trade, TV movies, usually film outside New York anyway.
I wasn't aware of your work on the PAX network, hosting It's a Miracle and starring in the legal show Just Cause. That's a bit under the Manhattan radar.
Oh, you'd be surprised at the popularity of It's a Miracle. Karen Akers told me she never missed it. It was a very touching show.
Would you like to star in a big-budget, major network drama?
I want to concentrate on this play right now. That's really it. I want it to have a long run.
