Nathan Lane
In many ways, Nathan Lane's star turn in the Broadway revival of Simon Gray's Butley represents a return to his theatrical roots. Before he burst to mainstream fame in Guys and Dolls, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum and, of course, The Producers, Lane built a solid reputation as a character actor in plays such as Present Laughter, Jon Robin Baitz's The Film Society, Gray's The Common Pursuit and many memorable collaborations with Terrence McNally, notably as a gay opera lover obsessed with Maria Callas in The Lisbon Traviata. But fans who know Lane only from The Producers, the hit movie The Birdcage or his snappy repartee on talk shows may be taken aback by his performance as the decidedly unsympathetic title character in Butley. As a depressed, chain-smoking, hard-drinking professor at a London university, Lane spars with his academic rival, his soon-to-be ex-wife, his handsome male protégé/lover, the lover's new boyfriend and assorted students who come calling to Ben Butley's pigsty of an office during one eventful day. There's nothing cuddly about Lane's version of a character that won Alan Bates a 1973 Best Actor Tony Award Gray also won for Best Play. While mining the script's dark comic moments, Lane is uncompromising in presenting Butley as the troubled, often nasty character he is. In conversation, the 50-year-old actor is not "on" in the way he appears on TV. He speaks slowly and quietly and gives an honest answer to every question, even when asked about the critical response to last season's revival of The Odd Couple—and his opinion of the movie version of The Producers.
Why did you want to play Ben Butley?
I saw the play with Alan Bates when I was a kid and loved it. The part I played in The Common Pursuit [in 1986] had Butley-esque characteristics, and Simon Gray said to me, "You're not old enough now, but someday Butley will be a terrific part for you." It was something we talked about for years. Finally, three years ago, we did it at [director] Nicky Martin's theater in Boston [Huntington Theatre Company]. It went well, so we were finally able to schedule it in New York.
What a midlife crisis this character seems to be having!
I think it goes a lot deeper and started a lot earlier than a midlife crisis. He seems to have a self-destructive fire in his belly. He's also a case of arrested development in his inability to have a healthy relationship. He seems to feed on arguing and antagonizing people, and a lot of it is also just his alcoholism.
Do you like the character?
I do. I care about him even though he's not the nicest fellow in the world. He's very complex and quite brilliant. You have to admire the way his mind works even though he's sometimes using it for evil instead of good. [laughs]
Well, as his wife says to him, "Perhaps you wanted a break. Perhaps you were frightened, but it doesn't matter anymore." I think he was genuinely attracted to her because in some ways she's like him: She's tough, versatile and brutal. What's interesting is that you hear him describe her throughout the first act and then she shows up and it's not the shrew he's been talking about. It's a rather attractive woman who's really sharp. There's a part of him that likes the idea of having a wife and a child. He thought he could do it and she was the person to do it with, and then it just fell apart. If there was any happiness there, he probably killed it because he needed some drama and something to rail against.
What do you make of his relationship with his younger lover and academic protégé Joey?
Joey has moved back in with him temporarily, but I think Butley assumes that they're going to set up shop and be a couple again in whatever sense they were in the past. I don't think it's a physical relationship. We've had lots of discussions about that; my own feeling is that at one point it probably was but it didn't last very long. Butley loved being the teacher and the mentor but Joey moved past it.
You have a one-on-one scene with every other actor in the cast. That must be fun.
Yes, I come on and then I don't leave—but many, many people come in and out of my door. They're all wonderful actors, and each has his own agenda. And then it's about seeing my character spiral out of control.
What happened to Benedick Bates, Alan Bates's son, who played Joey in the Boston production?
He's living in Los Angeles now, and he's got a big family; I guess he wasn't available. Julian [Ovenden] flew himself in and auditioned, and the moment he started to read, we thought, he's got it. He understands this world, and he's really terrific. That was just luck.
And this is a nice reunion with Dana Ivey, who was in Present Laughter with you when you were both starting your New York careers.
That was my Broadway debut. I get very emotional sometimes when I look over and see her and think that 25 years ago we were on the stage of Circle in the Square with George C. Scott. It's the first time we've worked together since then.
What's satisfying about doing a serious play? That's how you started out in the theater, after all.
It's a big mountain to climb, but when you get to the top it's very rewarding. It's just very satisfying to stretch these muscles again and to work with such great language. It's a real challenge for the actors and also for the audience. It doesn't let you off the hook. It's not a cozy world. As I said to someone, it's like tuning in to the second episode of a very dark, sophisticated series and trying to catch up. Even though there's a great deal of humor along the way, it's a very sad play.
Butley has filled the Booth Theatre to 95 percent capacity during previews on the strength of your name and an advertising poster of your face. Is the audience getting it? Are they with you?
For people who have followed my career in the New York theater, I don't think this role is that much of a surprise. But for people who may only know me from The Birdcage and The Producers, this is a surprise, and the material may be surprising as well. I would say half the people know the play a little bit, or they're intrigued by it. And I'm sure there are many who are bored out of their minds. [laughs] "Why is he doing this talky British play?" But you have to do things that challenge you, and Butley has been in the back of my mind for a very long time.
It's hard to believe 20 years have gone by since The Common Pursuit.
It's an emotional journey for Simon [Gray] and myself because we've known each other for so long. For him I'm sure it's also emotional to see [Butley] this work he wrote 35 years ago on Broadway again; his plays haven't been done in New York for a long time. I think it's a beautiful piece of writing. It may not be everybody's cup of tea, but it certainly is mine. The climate on Broadway is not so receptive to plays like this, but I'm very happy I'm doing it. It feels right.
How does it feel to be the biggest star of the New York theater—the Brad Pitt of theater, if you will?
[laughs] I've never felt that. I don't think about those things. Look, the theater is my home, and it's thrilling that the audience is showing up to see a play that not very many people remember. Everyone wants to be viable in the workplace, so if people buy tickets because of me, I'm happy. But mainly I'm trying to do the best work I can, and the theater is where I tend to have some choice about what I do.
How much do you care about reviews?
Well, obviously with a play like this, you really need critical support to keep going. And for those people who aren't sure how to feel about something, the reviews will tell them [laughs] one way or the other. Some of the critics have been around a long time; some of them I've outlived. They have their agendas and their preconceived notions about you. Whatever it is that goes through their heads, I don't know.
Sure. Again, that was a play I had always wanted to do in New York. And I was being asked by the author [Neil Simon] to play Oscar Madison. It was thrilling to do a first-class revival of what I think is a classic American comedy. The notion that it was some kind of get-rich-quick scheme was a little insulting—that that's the only reason we would do that particular play. The good news and the bad news was that we were sold out before the first rehearsal, with a $21 million advance. In a sense, the critics' power was taken away, and they were a little angry. Just the notion of Matthew [Broderick] and myself being together again seemed to annoy them, even though the public obviously wanted to see us again.
Did you enjoy the experience of playing Oscar?
I absolutely loved doing it, and it was something I was really proud of. It's a terrific piece of work. So, yes, you do tune that out. You have to—you have to do eight shows a week and do your work.
What did you think of the notion that you and Matthew should have switched parts?
Well, what can one say other than that the author—the author—asked me to play Oscar. I just think that because I'm openly gay, there's low-level homophobia in saying I should play the fussy one. Of course I could play Felix Ungar, but Joe [Mantello, the director] didn't want to do that. He liked the dynamic we had.
Could you ever see yourself going back into The Producers?
I don't think so. I feel like we've done it. It was an extraordinary, once-in-a-lifetime experience. We went back, which was thrilling, and I went to London and then we did the movie, so I feel like it's been explored. [laughs]
Why has the show never worked nearly as well without the two of you?
[long pause] I don't know. That's for others to say. It's a love story. That's where Matthew and I became friends, and there was a genuine feeling of emotion and affection between us and also a great combination of energies and styles that matched beautifully in that particular story and with those characters. The entire original cast was special that way.
You're being too modest about what you achieved in The Producers.
You know, it was the right time for that kind of show. It's one of those times when everything worked. And it was thrilling.
Were you happy with the movie version?
Well, the movie…[long chuckle] the movie…um, no, I wasn't happy with the movie. But they were having all these screenings and it was testing exceptionally well, and so I didn't want to argue with people. All I can say is my feeling afterwards was, I think we've done the most expensive Lincoln Center archive recording ever made. [laughs] But the feeling was: Do the show. That's what Mel Brooks wanted. Just do the show. It wasn't really rethought again as a screenplay. The script was essentially the libretto.
I was surprised that in many of the numbers, you and Matthew were performing straight to the camera as if you were looking at the audience.
You can take both sides of the argument [on how to film a musical]. One way to reinvent it would be to get an entirely new cast of movie stars, and others might argue to use the original cast. It's not a piece that lends itself easily to reinvention. But no, I didn't think it worked as a movie. But it certainly captured the show! It's one of those things where there's a lot of Monday-morning quarterbacking. So you say, well, we did what everyone wanted us to do and it didn't work. There you are.
What's happening with the musical version of Catch Me If You Can, in which you play the federal agent that Tom Hanks played in the movie? Will it go forward?
Yeah, they're still working on it. We've done three readings of it. It's very good. Terrence McNally wrote the book, Marc Shaiman and Scott Wittman wrote the score, and Jack O'Brien directed. It's still being developed and there are still many things to work on. We'll see what happens.
I was interested to read that you had also considered playing Cyrano de Bergerac.
It was one of the plays I talked about doing in Boston with [director] Nicky [Martin]. We'll see. It's great to take on challenges like that. I have miles to go before I sleep. [laughs]
Did Robbie Baitz try to lure you into his new ABC series Brothers and Sisters?
No. [laughs]
Could you see yourself in an ensemble TV drama?
Absolutely. Sure, I could see doing something like that if it's well-written.
Have you ever cared about becoming a movie star? You could have done most of the parts your Birdcage co-star Robin Williams has gotten.
I think we all fantasize to a certain degree about many aspects of show business. [laughs] But I've never felt like a movie star; I've always just been an actor who has done work in films. I had one big hit, The Birdcage, but nothing really grew out of that as far as getting a lot of other film work. Sometimes it's about momentum; it's also about my own choices. Maybe if I had gone to L.A. and concentrated on film and television I would have had a different career in that area, but I always concentrated on the theater.
I guess when I was a kid in school plays. I thought, yeah, this feels right. It feels comfortable.
You're the second actor I've talked to in the past week who graduated from St. Peter's Prep in Jersey City.
Phil Bosco, right?
Yes, and both of you are self-made men. [Lane's father, an alcoholic truck driver, died when he was 11; the actor supported his mother until her death in 2000.]
I guess that's true. [chuckles] I certainly had no connections. I went into the business straight out of high school and just kept at it. You know, I've been acting for 30 years, so for those people who only know me from The Producers, it's like [they should realize] I've been doing this a very long time.
You turned 50 in February. Did you mark the occasion in a special way?
I had a huge party at the Rainbow Room with an orchestra and a show that opened with Elaine Stritch and closed with Bette Midler. It was a spectacular evening, a wonderful night for me. I debated about whether to do something like that and I thought, well you only turn 50 once, so I did it and everyone seemed to have a really great time.
Who planned the entertainment?
Scott Wittman. My life coach [laughs]. He put together an amazing lineup: Elaine, Bette, Mario Cantone, Mel Brooks, Neil Simon, Matthew Broderick, Patti LuPone… I don't want to leave anybody out… Julie Halston. It was very loving and very touching that all these people showed up, especially the people who performed. It was very moving.
Wouldn't it have been great if your mom had lived to see it?
Yes, but she only would have been happy if Robert Goulet was there. [laughs] He was the only celebrity she was ever impressed with. Everybody else, she could have cared less. But at the opening of Forum she saw him across the room and said, "I want to meet Robert Goulet." He couldn't have been sweeter to her.
Did the "coming out" interview you did seven years ago relieve pressure on your personal life?
I guess. I don't know. Even though I had lived very openly, I just wasn't ready from a public point of view to [come out] before that time. It took me a couple of years from the time of The Birdcage. And the gay community can be very fickle. They were annoyed that I came out: "Yeah, we already knew. Who cares?" [laughs] They only would have cared if I was more attractive. They were very moved when Steve Kmetko from E! Entertainment came out. Me? They were still angry. I tend to anger people, maybe because I've played these larger than life characters. A friend of mine once said to me, "There's something about you and Patti LuPone. They either love you or they hate you! [laughs] You provoke a response."
See Nathan Lane in Butley at the Booth Theatre.
